Thanks for referring me here, @eric3579.

It's all true. The bit about pretty much zero world history being taught in schools is correct, but in a way that just makes it all the MORE puzzling.

I teach high school level students English. I do a unit on "Local Heroes" where my students learn a little bit about significant people from native English speaking countries. To get the theme across, I start with a Thai guy named Phraya Phichai who is a very significant person in the province where I live. From there I talk about Elvis Presley or Amelia Earhart for the US, Lord Nelson for England, William Wallace for Scotland, Nelson Mandela for South Africa, etc. to demonstrate people who have a similar kind of significance to people from those states/countries.

After that unit, during oral testing I ask every student to name their favorite historical figure / hero other than the ones we covered. Single most common response: the King of Thailand (the one that just died last year was and still is extremely respected / revered by Thais). But the second most common response: Hitler. By a pretty wide margin. I'd say 30%+ say the King, and nearly 10% say Hitler. Random sports players, musicians, etc. make up most of the rest -- but none with a big chunk of the responses like those 2.

I used to be pretty shocked by all of that kind of stuff here (I've seen the shirts, chicken restaurant, nazi flags for sale, etc.) but I guess I'm pretty numb to it by now. No idea what the source of it is, because it really does seem quite strange that Hitler isn't covered in schools here, yet somehow people seem to learn broad strokes about him enough for him to be oddly "popular". Whatever the source of that is, it seems to filter out the stuff that should make him infamous as opposed to a general pop culture sort of famous.

@enoch
Do native americans have to pay taxes to live within the US on a reservation? I thought that was part of their whole thing. I'm not terribly well versed on the issue. And I'm not sure what you mean by christianity and the other religious comparisons. I certainly dont agree with my christian friends on things like abortion, but I respect those that adhere to their religious text more than quasi christians that pick and choose their theology and then pretend that they're god is still infallible (even if i disagree with them all the more).

Blankfist made the original comparison of himself to Thoreau, I'm just fleshing out the idea to see if it's a fair comparison or not.

Thoreau is a personal hero of mine, so I find the comparison insulting and feel the need to press on questioning.

From my point of view, a majority of libertarians are nay-sayers who, as I've described, are all theory and no action. I disagree with the whole "government who governs least, governs best," nonsense; but the comparison to someone who I'd hold up on the same pedestal as oh, say, Nelson Mandela, is one that really gets under my skin.

Sure, there is no need to speak in terms of civil war. Unless you're one of these guntoting, armed to the teeth nutjobs who think it would be a good idea. You know, the kind of people who buy an *assault rifle* for self defense.
However, no matter how well trained your riot police is, their less than lethal tactics are only useful up to a certain amount of people, they can become rather useless if the crowds get too big to contain or simply too violent themselves. That's when it gets interesting, that is when protest can turn into riots.
When the cops face huge, somewhat peacful crowds, they might enter Tiananmen Square. At what point would american cops or military personnel start thinking that it's unwise or inhuman to start firing into the crowd? Before the first shot? After the second magazine? On day three?
It's not the 1960s anymore but the sixties are not forgotten. Not by those who faced police officers willing to fire into the crowd. You know, black people. The kind of people whose parents and grandparents are still alive to tell them about their fight against oppression. This is still alive in the american concious, it shaped your country and it won't go away soon. Just ask Barak about his birth certificate.
Civil unrest is part of your recent history, the seed is there. Even under a President Stalin all you'd need go from isolated, contained riots to complete and irreversible shitstorm is a Martyr, a Neda Agha Soltan or a Treyvon Martin. No matter what ethnicity (although african american would be nice), that would present a tipping point.
Your police can bring out the tanks on Times Square if they want but if half of NY shows up, these guys inside the tanks might want to get out ASAP.
The Erich Honecker regime of the German Democratic Republic was basically brought down by somewhat peaceful demonstrations of people shouting "I'm mad as hell and I won't take it anymore" in east german accents.
The StaSi, the Ministry of State Security, who was efficient enough to make *every* citizen a potential informant in the eyes of their opposition, ran from the protesters like little girls. They used to imprison and torture people who spoke up.
The east german border used to be the most secure in the entire world. It was protected by minefields and guards who shot and killed anyone who tried to cross it. Before David Hasselhoff even had a chance to put on his illuminated leather jacket the government caved and just fucking opened it. People just strolled through Checkpoint Charlie and bought Bananas as if it was Christmas.
This was the beginning of the end for the Soviet Union. You know, the guys who lost over 20 Million people in WW2 and still kicked the Nazis in the nuts.
Nobody brought a gun. All the east germans had was shitty cars and lots of anger. They tore down not just a dictatorship, they tore down the iron curtain.
And they didn't even have a Nelson Mandela. Or Lech Walesa.
I still stand by my point: strength in numbers, not caliber.

Clearly you fail to understand "diversity of opinion". I don't know what your opinion of Thatcher is or was (I'm assuming it was positive). My opinion differs from that, and I'm entitled to voice it.

And it's slightly ironic that you would use that to defend someone who supported Augusto Pinochet and called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. She wouldn't know diversity of opinion if it bit her in the ass.

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Everyone should appreciate the life and work of Nelson Mandela

Some of the notable peace prize winners from my lifetime, there's a lot more than Jimmy Carter and Al Gore. Sorry Joe but not everything on Earth is about hating Bush or America:

MARTTI AHTISAARI
KIM DAE JUNG
DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS (MÉDECINS SANS FRONTIÈRES)
JOHN HUME
CARLOS FELIPE XIMENES BELO and JOSE RAMOS-HORTA
YASSER ARAFAT
SHIMON PERES
YITZHAK RABIN
NELSON MANDELA
AUNG SAN SUU KYI
MIKHAIL SERGEYEVICH GORBACHEV
ELIE WIESEL
DESMOND MPILO TUTU
LECH WALESA
MOHAMED ANWAR AL-SADAT
MENACHEM BEGIN
BETTY WILLIAMS
MAIREAD CORRIGAN

-6.75, -4.46

Nelson Mandela

I mistakenly began another Sift Talk Post on the political compass, before it was pointed out to me this one existed.

My score was -6.75, -4.46 - which would put me in the lower left quadrant (lefty libertarian).

Almost smack dab on Nelson Mandela!

Whatever Westy, I'm as white as a sheet and I know I got emotional when Nelson Mandela became president of South Africa.

Lets look at the stats:

As of 2007, comparatively speaking white unemployment is pretty low at 4%. In the coloured demographic, which has a similar total population, unemployment is still incredibly high at 21%.

The black unemployment statistics have dropped by around 10% over the last 7 years, currently at 26%. Oddly, the coloured unemployment statistics have seen minimal shift over the same period of time, which is strange considering the Employment Equity Act covers blacks and coloureds under the same umbrella.

I'm not as interested in whats been going on with unemployed whites as much as I am interesting in the coloured unemployment stats. Even the white unemployment rate has dropped over the last 7 years.

The Employment Equity Act is far from flawless though, and it's not an efficient piece of legislation. The statistics may look good superficially, but the quality of the workforce the the EEA has created is questionable. Especially considering the governments rush to fill EEA 'quotas' without the required corresponding investment in relevant education and training to guarantee the ability of the individuals thrust into these new positions.

The annoying thing is the the only coverage South Africa seems to get in the international press is badly researched pieces like this, or something to do with Nelson Mandela.

"...Dick Cheney voted against a 1986 resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela and recognition of the African National Congress...."

(Source)

Was dick Cheney born evil? Or did he pick it up along the way as he was playing toady for big oil companies?